“Truth Isn’t Truth” and Other Bits of Wisdom from Rudy Giuliani

“This is going to become a bad meme.”

July 18, 2016 - Cleveland, Ohio, U.S - Former Mayor of New York CIty, Rudolph (Rudy) Giuliani addresses the Republican National Convention at the Quicken Arena in Cleveland, Ohio Mark Reinstein/ZUMA Wire

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One of President Trump’s lawyers, former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, appeared on “Meet the Press” Sunday morning, where host Chuck Todd quizzed him about why the president hasn’t submitted to an interview by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, who is investigating Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election and allegations that the president and his campaign obstructed justice.

After Todd suggested that Trump may be delaying Mueller’s report by refusing to sit for an interview with him, Giuliani pushed back. Here’s their remarkable exchange:

Rudy Giuliani: What I have to tell you is, look, I am not going to be rushed into having him testify so that he gets trapped into perjury. And when you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he’s going to tell the truth and he shouldn’t worry, well that’s so silly because it’s somebody’s version of the truth. Not the truth.

Chuck Todd: Truth is truth. I don’t mean to go like –

Rudy Giuliani: No, it isn’t truth. Truth isn’t truth. The President of the United States says, “I didn’t-“

Chuck Todd: Truth isn’t truth? Mr. Mayor, do you realize, what, I, I, I, –

Rudy Giuliani: No, no, no-

Chuck Todd: This is going to become a bad meme.

Watch the whole interview here:

DONALD TRUMP & DEMOCRACY

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DONALD TRUMP & DEMOCRACY

Mother Jones was founded to do journalism differently. We stand for justice and democracy. We reject false equivalence. We go after stories others don’t. We’re a nonprofit newsroom, because the kind of truth-telling investigations we do doesn’t happen under corporate ownership.

And we need your support like never before, to fight back against the existential threats American democracy faces. Fundraising for nonprofit media is always a challenge, and we need all hands on deck right now. We have no cushion; we leave it all on the field.

It’s reader support that enables Mother Jones to report the facts that are too difficult, expensive, or inconvenient for other news outlets to uncover. Please help with a donation today if you can—even a few bucks will make a real difference. A monthly gift would be incredible.

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